Podcast for Singers 
Overcoming Fear to
LIVE LARGE - Unapologetically!

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Show Transcript

Mel Lathouras 0:00
is a feeler singer member, but my school you're the epitome of a feeler singer. So welcome on the podcast. Thanks, Mel,

Kylie Stephenson 0:08
thank you for having me. Hello, everyone.

Mel Lathouras 0:10
And so the reason why I thought I'd bring Kylie on is because I feel like you've looked you've been acting and performing for many, many years, but just in the last, probably six months, you've gone, okay? These are the things that I want, I want to be performing in a band. And it's been a very quick turnaround, you're already now performing in a band. However, it wasn't an easy time to get to that point. So that's what I want you to talk about. Just yeah, overcoming some of those fear barriers that you have to be honestly, you absolutely nailed the feeler singer, jam the other week. It was absolutely wonderful. So yeah, I think if we can start off with When did you get started with singing and performing? And then where did it sort of start to go a little bit? Like, how's he going in terms of, you know, like getting those performing nerves? Yeah.

Kylie Stephenson 1:11
I guess you know, my mother always said that, you know, I've not always had a stage, but I've always been a performer. So it probably was my temper tantrums when I was about two. However, I do recall when I was in primary school, one of my first songs I ever wrote with my best friend was called green little slimy things. We used to perform that to all our friends. And I also had a skit show called Kylie Minogue, Jr, that I put on every school camp. So you know, from from when I was a very small child, I always love to perform. However, I was a very nervous child, I would take my sister to the bathroom in the night, because I thought that I was going to get, you know, the boogeyman was coming out or, you know, very imaginative in that way. So and I wouldn't talk to anyone without them talking to me first, quite highly strong, anxious, child. However, I really love the stage in the creative process when it comes to writing shows and expressing myself in that way. Because it felt like it, it was me, but it was a place where I could disappear. On the stage. You know, no one actually, I wasn't performing to people. I was just performing to get out some of those zoomies and the energy that I have inside of me. So yeah, from a very young age, I think the first time I started noticing I was getting performance anxiety was not necessarily with performing. I think it was any, you know, putting my hand up in class or getting picked up to answer a question at class and being put on the spot without being able to have to consider an answer or the risk of being wrong, incorrect and then ridiculed because of it was terrible fear instilled in me in school.

Mel Lathouras 3:10
And can I say that since then? We learn, you know, in education now not to do that to kids. Yeah, just to you know, really don't call people out. Understanding where they're at. You know, you would just never, you'd never do that.

Kylie Stephenson 3:26
Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, when it came to singing, I wasn't a natural singer. I had a lot of issues being able to hear pitch, had a lot of issues. I played in the concert band. I was stuck with oboe for a year, which my lovely conductor needed an oboist in the Concert Band, and there was no one wanting to play it. So he's like, if you can play this for a year, you can play any instrument you want. So cool. Try to Okay, so I played this thing for a year. Not gonna lie sounded a bit like a constipated duck. Yeah.

Mel Lathouras 4:07
You know, not the auto type, correct? Duck. Oh, no, you don't want to be constipated. The other thing? Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 4:14
yeah. Firetruck. Yeah. But I played that for a year and then I got to play whatever I wanted. And I played tenor saxophone for five years. Oh, that's so cool. I'm not gonna like in was not someone who could just pull out a solo. But I

do. Do

know, I could read music and play it. Yeah. And I was too scared to deviate because in case I was going to be wrong, or make a mistake, and I didn't want to make a fool of myself in front of people. So I did that. But I would sit there in the tuning when you tune the whole band. I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell if my instrument was in tune or not. And I was lucky I was on read instrument because they're not

Mel Lathouras 4:59
you I was gonna say, you don't really tune a saxophone? No, no, I was so lucky.

Kylie Stephenson 5:04
But I could not hear it. Yeah, at all. And that didn't really bother me because I had, you know, things written on a stave, I could follow and play and hope that it sounded okay. It wasn't until I was starting to perform in musicals, that I had to sing and try and sing in the choir and sing. You know, and that's an instrument, you obviously have to always work on and tune and be able to hear what you're doing. And I had a lot of trouble differentiating between pitch. And I think over the years, you know, that the training here for me is muscle memory and trusting the the pattern recognition I have, rather than naturally been able to find pitch. And I still struggle with that. To this day, my ears a lot better, but

Mel Lathouras 5:55
you've worked very, very hard on it. And actually, for me, you're a real testament to none, no, everybody can learn pitch unless you are like a very, very tiny, small percentile of the population that are tone deaf. Yeah. But that means it's you, that is so extremely rare. If you were in that category. You're unique. And I would, you know, you know, honour that, but yeah, like, for everybody else, pitch can be 100% learned.

Kylie Stephenson 6:26
And I think it's that concept of, you know, beautiful people don't have to work on their personality. I had to work on my stage presence, I had to work on the craft in a way that I built up around with the other skills I had to offer when I perform in front of people and just work madly behind the scenes to, to make sure that I was developing my, my pitch. I was always very lucky had very good natural tone and resonance. But, you know, before Mal, I had a lot of trouble with my breathing. And also the anxiety around that. When I started singing in musicals. In grade nine, I had a music teacher who, who, who was probably shouldn't have been a music teacher. Because she said, I'm casting you in this musical in this role, because because you're so good at singing off key guy, remember, you're so broke my heart trouble. And that frightened me. And then you should

Mel Lathouras 7:31
like not that you shouldn't have been a music teacher. If you're going to make horrible comments to kids like that. You shouldn't be a teacher. Full stop. Child abuse. Yeah. And,

Kylie Stephenson 7:41
you know, I don't think I have no feelings with that. And yeah, I don't feel but I do think that's where maybe some of this narrative I've developed about pitching has started from because I was a free performer before that really free. And, you know, I would express myself in the weirdest ways to like, I wasn't a conventional performer, either. I would do wacky stuff. Like, I think I had a band when I was in grade nine called in Indiana Jones and the microphones, and I was Indiana Jones and I would wrap like, in Mt eyes, like, people be like, Who is this idea you from

man? Yeah, I

lived in that. And I said 10 years

ago. Yeah, I grew up out there. Well,

Mel Lathouras 8:35
so are we talking like very young till late teens,

Kylie Stephenson 8:39
seven to finishing high

Mel Lathouras 8:40
school. Oh, wow. Okay,

Kylie Stephenson 8:43
so that was an eye opener. You know, the good thing was is that we did have access to music. We did put our high school put on a musical every year. Yeah, got to travel for fanfare. There are

Mel Lathouras 8:56
some easy mofos singers that have come out of man iser. Do you know Chris, Chris Lynn Hamilton? No. Oh, she's an incredible She's based in Perth. Now. She was in Brisbane for a long time. But yes, she's from iser.

Kylie Stephenson 9:09
Yeah. Greg Norman was in Mt. Eyes and I think um, it's Greg Norman.

Is he a Golfer? Golfer?

He might be Yeah, can you recruit?

Hang on is Greg Norman

still alive? Not to my knowledge.

Oh, okay. Anyway, that's so

random. Producer to fat check. Yeah.

Mel Lathouras 9:30
Basic Count Basie, right.

Kylie Stephenson 9:34
Yeah, no, yeah. Words in yet undetermined. Yeah. But ya know, it was interesting growing up out there because my family were a real sporting family. So I didn't get a lot of support for my music and artistic stuff at home because my parents didn't really understand. They were really focused on on sport. And, you know, both my parents are rarely tively introverted people and though I am an introvert, I was very expressive, a bit over the top, have learned to rein in the dramatics a little bit over the years knowing that it is something that I do keep to the stage now. And learning to be your authentic self when you are socially anxious instead of verbal vomiting over people overcompensating by not sitting in your own self comfortably. So it took a long time to develop that. But yeah, I think my parents did not know how to support somebody who had this absolute passion to creatively express themselves. So yeah, it was difficult finding my own way. So it wasn't like, you know, my parents were putting me through singing lessons or music lessons or anything like that. I relied on a state school system, which fortunately, amount i So we did have that we had instruments, we got higher, and we had teachers we had access to, but it wasn't ever extracurricular. For me.

Mel Lathouras 11:03
Yeah. That's so interesting. It I know, this might seem a bit random, this link, but I was talking to a singer last night, Ingrid James at the jazz club. And she was talking about highly sensory people. Yeah. And that, and I would I identifies that I have obviously not diagnosed but I, I resonate with a lot of the different traits, but I can so relate to everything that you just spoke about, you know, growing up, wanting to put on the shows, this way, I sort of express myself as well. And where I got a lot of validation, I also was so spooked out, like in my house. And if I had a sister, I would be like, my brother would, you know, wake up and then find me dislike with a little sleeping bag on the floor going? I could I don't know me, you know, same thing. And I wonder whether it is that? Yeah, just part of being highly sensory. Yes. feel everything. Pick up on a lot of big emotions in a space like this. Yeah, real impact. Yeah. So

Kylie Stephenson 12:09
you know, even if I see an ambulance roll past I get short of breath and anxious for, and then my mind just goes to these places. And I've had to learn to rein it in, because I lose a lot of energy if you if I let it go in those ways. And then I don't have the energy to give to things that are important. So I've learned to rein it in, by Yeah, anything like that my mind would be going just the person know, who's the most important to that person? Know, they're in an ambulance right now. Or, like, you know, my mind would just go to these crazy areas, like I saw a duck on the road once when I was driving home late at night. And I'm like, oh, what's he doing on the road? So I stopped the car and walked up and found that he was standing next to his mate that had been collected by a car, and I went home to my partner at the time, I just burst into tears. And I was rambling about these ducks in that, you know, that despite even, you know, that they weren't there. They were still there. And, and the dedication and commitment and, and, you know, but it was so sad because they just have lost their their life partner. And yeah, I think he thought I was a bit naughty. But, you know, that's okay. But we take things on and we Yeah, consider things in a way that is often could be called. Oh, you're so weird. Why do you think like that? That's not normal?

Mel Lathouras 13:39
Well, apparently, I didn't realise I just I think because, you know, we live in our own POV, our own little scope, you kind of think that everyone's like you that everyone feels that deeply about, I would do exactly the same thing. I remember just, you know, I drive back to Bundaberg a lot. And you see all the roadkill and you go to this man made world wasn't designed for the natural world and you know, just go into massive, you know, spiral because of that. And then you think, well, you currently driving a car, you know, to get home to your family. Check yourself before you read. Yeah, exactly. Um, I can totally identify with that. But apparently HSP people are a very small percentage. Yeah, most people can kind of, I don't know, like, obviously, you know, they see something that's dead and obviously feel like oh, that's sad. But not take on the energy the Yeah, the story of it all, I guess.

Kylie Stephenson 14:40
Yeah. Yeah. And it took a long time to dissociate from that and as a child because you know, it was very hyper sensory. So it took a long time to be able to be self aware enough and also detachment So from the ego on the validation, I would get from sensing things very quickly. Like, I would always think that someone was mad at me when it was not like that. Or I was very insecure about how what people would think of me, even to the point where I'd be completely hyper imagination where I thought I saw a flashlight outside my window all night, just wiggling around. And I sat there and stared at it all night. And then the dawn came, it was the street lamp, emotionless street lamp. So my eyes had completely derived some kind of self edited narrative about there is somebody outside the window. And how old were you when that happened? I would put me at nine or 10 years old. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, I would constantly take my sister to the bathroom, I wish and this was because I would just sense things. And even to this day, I don't sleep particularly well at times, because I hear every single thing that's going on, or sensing, you know, the fight or flight goes quite a lot. And it's cool your jets lady like You're safe. You're okay. And I think a lot of with the performance anxiety, that hyper sensory tied in also with that fear of not being good enough, and also doing something wrong. And put that together. And then yeah, it can seep into every area of your life. Like, even for me if I have to give, have a meeting, and I have to speak in the meeting. I'm already sweating. I'm freaking out. I'm shaking. Like when I give interviews for people or have to ring somebody to do a phone screen for recruitment or anything like that in my in my job. I'm shaking and stuff because the adrenaline just goes really hard. And it's not like I rationally I'm not thinking of it as a scary thing. Oh, this is scary. Anything but my body will still take over to the state

Mel Lathouras 17:17
that Yeah, well, I mean, and that's where a lot of us sit, we sit in flight fight. It's like, your body doesn't distinguish between those slight anxieties around meeting or, or you know, having to speak up or being called upon to answer a question in a classroom. Your body still perceives that as you're about to get bitten by a dinosaur, you know, and you need and a lot of my teaching now is around, okay, let's learn all all the skills that let's get the big toolbag on of all the things that we can do just little quick things to get ourselves out of flight fight, so that our body feels safe. And I just wanted to validate you like with the, you know, even just noises in the night and things like that if I'm in a hyper anxious state, so and I haven't done, I haven't done my tapping I haven't done. You know, I've just sometimes, I don't know, sometimes it just happens. You go, oh, shit, I'm here. I'm hyper anxious, but I do exactly the same thing. And yeah, the tapping helps me in those moments just to, you know, the amygdala starts coming down sending signal through the body and then yeah, those noises don't feel like Yeah, exactly. Like a big life threatening. Someone's gonna break it. Yeah, it often comes down

Kylie Stephenson 18:33
to Yeah, it's a hyperactive brainstem or nervous system. Yeah. That you can calm down by doing you know, tapping, yeah, mindfulness, all sorts of things, whatever works for you. For me, I really enjoy the tapping with you. You know, before that, impromptu first gig that I did the other night full gig that was thrown on us one day before and we haven't done it as a band. That's

Mel Lathouras 18:58
what I want to talk about. This is this is. Honestly, this was amazing. I just want to point out that probably about a couple of months ago, the idea of performing with a band would have freaked you

Kylie Stephenson 19:13
the fuck out? Yeah, not gonna lie. Yeah.

Mel Lathouras 19:16
And and like, that's no like, you know, and by the way, Kylie is so phenomenally talented. And I'm just that I know. Sorry. cringe. I don't know. This is a cringe freezone um, know, but she is she really is just so phenomenal to watch. She's just a beautiful singer, incredible performer. She lights up a stage. She's so freaking funny. She's so hilarious. And just really quick, and you're, for me, you're at this to watch you. It's like watching a consummate performer who's done it for a long time. So I just the reason why I'm saying this is because I do see that a lot. I see very classical The good you know, so I try to avoid using polarity language good, bad because the reality is, we all have a unique voice and a new, a unique way of expressing ourselves. And I always say this to people that come through. Look at Bob Dylan, they have the most classically, you know what you'd say commercial sounding voice? No, but he was a phenomenal storyteller. So he was able to harness his strengths to you know, be the great Bob Dylan, you can say the same thing about Marianne faithful, you know, all these unique voices. Whereas Kali is, like, has the commercial sound has all these amazing things. So what I'm trying to say is you can have at all but still have anxiety, you know, around performing and so, yeah, just and to validate you as well, like, because it's a it's a thing, and we've all experienced it or experience it, you know, this is the other thing, we might get to one part of our performing life. You know, we've released a lot of the layers through whatever modalities that we use, but still we you know, want to go to that next level in our career, whatever it is, and it brings up imposter syndrome. It brings up all sorts of random stuff from your childhood that you're like I forgot that even happened, you know, oh, are you doing

Kylie Stephenson 21:22
trained at the best school in music to do this and that

I was a lazy child. Yeah.

Oh, no, your Mel's like, Have you have you done your your warm up vocals for them? Like,

Mel Lathouras 21:37
yeah, but also to my whole thing is like this shame free zone. You do you do what you can, you know, shame is so counterintuitive. Yeah, it is. Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 21:48
there's no point in, in shame. And I think, you know, that's taken a long time for me to not be motivated by it as well. I think a lot of my motivations were because I wanted to do things because of pure joy, I would do, I'd get off my my butt and have a fire cracker up my ass when there's an envelope in my head, in the premise that I'm going to fail miserably on my face. So I would be motivated by that. But now I'm actually motivated by I actually love to perform. And I love to, you know, sing is one of my most favourite things. Yeah, it's probably one of the scariest things I do as well, for my own self. And the thing I've worked hardest on, was acting came very naturally to me. And I studied, you know, formal acting, and but I never, never went to school, I tried to go to school, for music, and then I had so many panic attacks each time I'd go to class, because I had to perform in front of all these gifted performers that I quit. I had to drop out of music school, and I'm not talking when I was 20 years old. I went to music school, I started when I was like, 33, I think well,

yeah, 34 years ago. Yeah. And, and,

you know, as a mature age, and I put so much expectation on myself to be perfect, immediately that I just I psyched myself out so bad. And actually I do, you know, I had to see a psychologist for a while because I needed to work on some tools to be able to release the fact that just because you've made a decision and you've committed to something doesn't mean that is it for the rest of your life. And you're not allowed to change your mind. or change your feelings about something. And also

Mel Lathouras 23:43
too, you can always go back to it if you want to. Yeah, that would be so just want to honour you for sharing that story. Because that would be so validating for a lot of people. It Yeah, that starts something go, oh, doesn't feel I don't feel well enough. Yeah, at this point to go through with this. Yeah. And

Kylie Stephenson 24:01
the psychologist said to me, she's like, You are a singer. You love to sing. The way you end up doing it can be any which way you choose and what feels right for you. So just because that didn't work for you now, doesn't mean you're not a singer, or you're not going to perform or you're not going to do it in a different way. There's a million ways to skin the singing cat, you know, per se all the performing cats want to go

Mel Lathouras 24:33
and cover bases is what he said. But yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 24:36
he's too cute to do anything like but you know, there's many ways to the goal. The journey is the important bit and that's why it's so individualised because the typical journey the conventional journey may not suit everybody that's on me.

Mel Lathouras 24:53
100% That is why Isaac Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 24:57
I it works for some people. I love having framework, I love method. I'm an analytical person, I need to work within processes and frameworks and understand how things work before I can go and be a freeform, you know, like that example about me understanding music and being able to read it and play what's exactly. The notes on there. I had to do that a very long time. And I don't do that with singing because I'm not conventionally trained in singing I go to. I've been with Mel for, I'd say over 10 years probably.

Mel Lathouras 25:32
On Off. Yeah, it wasn't. So after you got into that course. I didn't see you for quite a few years. No,

Kylie Stephenson 25:40
I didn't do anything for some time.

Mel Lathouras 25:43
I was like, there's a void in my life. I don't know what it is. Until you came back. Yeah, um, but we've only really been working, I think solid solidly for the last year. Yeah, I think so. And you've just like you, honestly, you. Every time you seeing us, you're, you're, you're better than the week before it like, and again, I tried to avoid scale ik type of language like you're better. But I feel like with you, it's more it's, you're becoming more of yourself. And more sure of yourself. I always love that analogy of is it Michelangelo that was chipping away at the at the block and someone said, you know, how do you do that? Like, how do you sculpt something so beautiful, beautiful. And he said, Well, I just keep chipping away, I see the angel inside. And I just keep chipping away until I get to her. And I think feel like that's, that's what I see with most of my students. Yeah, including yourself, or actually all of my students, that you just every week, it's like, you're just a little bit more sure of what you and more trusting in your instrument. Because you know, that you do you do do the work. Even if you do miss a few days here. And there. You always, I just want to also point out that when you're thinking about singing, and even if you're visualising singing, your, your vocal folds are still working. So you don't actually have to physically make the sound. For this stuff to be working for you. You could be in the shower, like doing your funny little sounds and experimenting with sound. You could be you know, washing up as you're thinking about, like some of the concepts that you've learned in session. But yeah, it's doing the work. But I just wanted to point out that, and I'm sorry, I keep coming back to this. And it's a bit of probably sound a bit repetitive. But before before the gig that we did, can you keep a secret? You did have quite a bit of anxiety before that. Did you do some tapping around that? Yeah, hell yeah.

Kylie Stephenson 27:45
I was very. Yeah, I had to do a real express one, because I had worked from eight till six that day. I did a little bit of tapping on the way over, however, I was very nervous. And then I ended up having too many gins and tonics that night, and I did not perform to my best ability. So I took that as a note on board to make sure that I find other methods to be able to relieve my anxiety because I know that you know, ya have if having one or two drinks, gives you a bit more of a relaxation or gives you the courage to be able to overcome some of those nerves, by all means, but for me, I had one too many, which then affected my ability to sort of support my breath properly. Or really be mindful about what I'm doing. Yeah, remember my take? Technique? Yeah.

Mel Lathouras 28:52
Yeah, everyone's different. There's people that like can have a good, you know, chug back a few beers and get up on stage. I know if I drank beer before a gig. I'd be burping and farting. Yes. Yeah. Yes. But I mean, you know, a couple of like, scotches, yeah. So yeah, but also to I don't have any, I don't moralise out alcohol or food or like, yeah, I don't. I know there'll be people that go, No, you should not be drinking before you go. But if that works for people not to, then then that's fine. That's people's choices.

Kylie Stephenson 29:26
We have our own choices about what we do with ourselves. Yeah, I think you know, we need to respect people's process. Yeah. I did it because I was masking anxiety, rather than using it as a tool. All right. So that then led me on to, you know, when we because after that gig. I, my band suddenly picked up a full first gig and we have only been rehearsing. I think we had for rehearsal stick had to put together a two hour setlist. And we're just working towards the goal of getting a gig. And then suddenly, on a Wednesday night, we got offered a gig for a Saturday night. And we had to then scramble to get everything together to be able to do that. And the day on the Saturday, I was very fortunate that I had a lesson with with Mel. And we did some serious, serious tapping that morning because I came in incredibly in heightened energy. I was quite on the verge of, I think, having a little bit of a breakdown. And it was good because we did the tapping and it calmed it down. And then I had another freak out. But then I went and tapped after that. And did other breathing and mindfulness exercises, made sure I was prepared. Like even just the pure act of making checking all of your gear, you've got everything ready to go in place, it's ready to put in the car, having everything prepared well in advance really alleviated my nerves as well. So for me being prepared is one of those things that helps. And having a checklist. When you're heightened, you can't think well, so I like to have checklists and things like that. And I do it in my job

Mel Lathouras 31:26
a lot. Do you write the checklist before you're feeling the heightened? Absolutely, feeling? Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 31:31
it becomes muscle memory after a while you know exactly what to look for and what you need. When you are heightened, and I fall into the secure place of thinking very, almost to rationally where it's like a, b, c, d, but it does calm me down a lot when I'm not thinking about the possibility of things not going right. And also I start challenging the narratives a lot in my mind going well, what's the worst that can happen? voicing those anxieties as well, like during the tapping, it's really good. But I also my band is such a supportive group of people. And we discuss these anxieties, you know what, you know, if we say yes to these, what are the what are the things that could be the worst things that could happen.

So just

talk about it? Well, we're all loved by our beautiful bass player who's 18 years old, the rest of us oppose 40. We are all have careers, there's kids, you know, you've had a lifetime to have to be organised, think rationally, take perspective. That's one that Brian too. And you know, I have a group of people who are a dream team.

Mel Lathouras 32:56
I also want to point out that Kylie attracted that with tapping. So that's the other thing too, so you can use EFT, you know, to, to clear those old narratives. So anything that comes up and to help your nervous system feel safe, it does that. But while you're then in that more expansive site, that's when you can start actually affirming what it is that you that you want. And you can see it from two angles, you can see it from the spiritual point of view of the universe, or you can actually just see it from the scientific subconscious mind point of view, you're actually activating your RAs, and which is then it's designed the reticular, reticular activating system. Yeah, that's what it is. It then starts to like, honestly, it's tune just to see opportunities or, and then to be able to take action. It's like when you start looking up a brand of car, you know, or, I mean, you do kind of the algorithm then start sending you. But like, even you start seeing it on the street and stuff like that. So that's your RAS that's activated, and that's what you're doing. So you can actually use it while you're in that more expensive state to bring in those things, those goals that you actually want.

Kylie Stephenson 34:18
Yep, and it Yeah, it was almost purely like that. I've also been recently doing a lot more work around actual goal setting, and not just setting goals, but actually creating checklists of how to get to the goal like really thinking it through. And this just so happened to unravel on its own even though you know, through tapping I'm like I'm ready, I can do this. We can I can start thinking thinking about touching base with some musicians to maybe collaborate. But then it Yeah, I was contacted through a through band Mix. which is like a classifieds for musicians. And they were looking for a new front person for the band because they've had a bit of a reshuffle. And yeah, I auditioned and, and they brought me on board, which was amazing. So that goal kind of unravelled on its own. And I think it was because I was open to it.

Mel Lathouras 35:23
I also remember talking about it when we actually talked about particular personality types. So you can actually, when you write those goals, actually, don't just write down I want to be in this isn't sorry, directed to you. I want to be in a band right down, I want to be in a collaborative band with supportive, kind, thoughtful individuals, you know, so actually be very specific as to who you want to work with, as well. Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 35:51
I think it is incredibly important that you are specific with those kinds of things. Because then you know, your own boundaries. And you know, what you're willing to accept. Because if you, you know, there's one thing I've been able to be a wonderful performer, but it's really 5050. The other 50% is how you are to work with and who you're working with, how you are with your professionalism, how you are with your organisation, your facilitation, your coordination of things. And just being a general, really good human who can take on feedback, and also be able to give it to people as well. And yeah, you can be the best performer in the world. But if if your shit to work with no one's gonna want to work with you, there's plenty of people who, who are talented, there's a wonderful network of musicians who have so many skills. But yeah, you need to find the right sort of collaboration to make a Jelen and work well, because you know, personalities are an interesting thing to work with. To be able to do

Mel Lathouras 36:58
that, people, my best friend who's a Brisbane, I think she's Brisbane, best jazz pianist, and she works at Jazz Music Institute as a senior lecturer. But she always says kindness is free. And that's one of the her biggest things that she teaches all of our students is, you know, you can be them. Like exactly what you said, you can be the most talented, but if you're tricky to work with, if you're not going to get the gig man, no, yeah, no, yeah, just you know. And really, that's not saying teaching people to be people, pleasers, obviously, you do have to have your own professional boundaries. But if you show up on time you show up, and you're respectful and kind. Yeah, you're always you always get heaps more work where that came from,

Kylie Stephenson 37:46
because you are yourself a brand and a business. So if someone from a business treated you in a way that was not respectful, that was not, you know, didn't listen was not polite. You wouldn't go back would you know, so you need to treat yourself as if you are a business? Oh,

Mel Lathouras 38:04
absolutely. Yeah. And did you find because Callie and I did a bit of business coaching last year as well, did that sort of help? kind of start sort of seeing? I think you always had to be honest, you've always had a natural entrepreneurial disposition in terms of you're very creative. You're very service orientated. Everything that you do I know about you is that you're always thinking about the audience, like what am I giving? You know, but did that kind of help you to sort of go Oh, actually, I can, you know, package things together that I do really? Well? Yeah. And sort of see myself as Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 38:44
I think what I really gained from doing business coaching side of things with you, is, I'm, I had a lot of difficulty during the draw string. So I had all these like things. I'm like, oh, yeah, I could do this or do this or do that. But I didn't know where to start. I was really overwhelmed, and didn't have any idea on how to even at that time, project, manage myself and you gave me a lot of tools to start breaking it down into smaller manageable chunks and giving me tools that can help me get to those small goals rather than having an overarching goal and feeling overwhelmed by it. So that really helped me to start organising my brain because I am quite known to be a little bit of a scatterbrain at times and don't know where to start and I get decision paralysis and then I get anxious that I'm going to make the wrong decision. And then I just don't do anything at all.

Mel Lathouras 39:43
I think most people can identify with

Kylie Stephenson 39:45
like, Oh, no too hard basket. It's better not to try then then be looked like a fool. But that's that's not the case. People were like, Oh my gosh, that person is getting out there and doing these things and taking a chance So making bold decisions, and I wish I could I wish I had the guts to do that. And

Mel Lathouras 40:07
that I think most people do think like that. But I mean, we don't actually know what other people think nobody, but I love that because the voice that you just use, that's like, I create a little cheerleader. Like, I've got a little chilly that that who talks to me like that? Yeah, you know, I was like, Oh, my, you know, look, that wasn't cringe. No, you're just being yourself. And you're funny. And you're cute. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, I apologise. I have like, I have this tiny little little, you know? Yeah, a little alter ego that pumps me up my little cheerleader. Yeah,

Kylie Stephenson 40:39
I think I have one too, as well. Um, she's quite, she's quite cute. She's also very soothing. She'd be like, okay, you know, next time, let's think about it from this way. How about when you're breathing? You just think about, you know, scooping in because Mel, Mel tells you to scoop. So just scoop. Try it. Yeah, it's okay. What's the worst that's gonna happen?

Mel Lathouras 41:05
But it's the worst thing it's gonna happen. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Yeah, that's a great tactic that I always use as well. So what is like, what's the worst case scenario? If I, because I coach myself a lot on boundaries. Like if I just said no, to that? Yeah, that's out of my scope. What was the worst thing that happened? And it's amazing where your mind will take you as to what is the worst thing could that can happen? You're like, Oh, darling, you really big I feel like that. And then I tap on that. And then I release it. Because obviously, there's a little crosswind miscommunication that I picked up from childhood between the ages of one to five, where I thought that if I did that, this would happen. So yeah, and this is why we're so lucky. We've got so many tools. Yeah, I agree, Kylie, I feel like you're just such an exceptional model of someone that is, you know, highly sensory, you know, think that's gonna be like, if you're highly sensory, you're highly sensory for life. And that's cool. Because that makes you an amazing friggin artist. so creative and so empathetic. Honestly, it's like, what a great quality of that to have. I'm not saying that anyone who isn't highly sensory can't have the same, you know, but I'm just saying we can reframe it to actually to pump ourselves up. Because, like I said before, it really is when we start connecting to this idea of service, like what it is that we're bringing into the world, I feel like it does alleviate a lot of the fear. And I know that you do that, because you're just such a empathetic, always thinking about your audience. That's why you're so you work so well in that space. Like it's like you're having a conversation, which is really beautiful. So if you like you model, being highly sensory, still have, you know, obviously anxiety, but you're not letting it stop you from doing anything. You know, you're going okay, let's change the change the narrative around anxiety, what what it actually means and actually allowing it to be your friend. Like, it's part of who you are. Part of. Yeah. And do you find that sometimes when you do kind of embrace it, it just dissolves anyway?

Kylie Stephenson 43:19
Yeah, it just

Mel Lathouras 43:20
sort of, well, it can. It's sometimes it's yeah, it comes

Kylie Stephenson 43:23
for the ride. And it once you get through it, and you go, Oh, okay, well, that wasn't as scary as I thought it was. And you have a conversation with yourself and go, Well, okay, anxiety next time, like it's good to have a little bit of anxiety, it means you care. Yeah. Like you really care. If you didn't, if you're apathetic, it comes out and you performance, big time. Yeah. Like there's Yes, you can. Anxiety can be a wonderful tool if you know how to you know, ebb and flow with it and work with it and rely on you know, the the methodology and the training and the techniques that you've developed over time to be able to have that still motivate you a little bit I think that's not like we frame is it is a bad thing. I don't think it is, I think it means that you've got a fire in you to do well and do your best and you're afraid that you know, of things that are outside of your control, perhaps. But yeah, it's comes with you along for the ride like you may as well put them in your purse. Out the back, disappear. Oh,

Mel Lathouras 44:36
I think it's also about like, you're not compartmentalising yourself. You're like you're you're you're bringing every aspect of self, you know, and being human. Oh my god, you know, we're human beings. You know, I'm just, we're giving all of ourselves and I think also to anxiety can be a good cue as to be curious as to what's going on. So it helps us kind of like What'd you do you have those conversations saying, Oh, well, what's the worst that can happen here? Or what is it that I need? And I feel like that's the other thing I wanted to say that you're really great at modelling is, okay, well, what do I need? Okay, I need clear checklists. I need to know for sure what I'm doing. Like, I need to have my charts organised, and he'd have all my equipment organised. So it's that kind of like getting to know yourself, like knowing thyself, embracing myself and embracing our humaneness. I feel like you're like the epitome of all this stuff. And then being able to get being able to go okay, well, and what are my tools? Like? What are the things that I can actually use in this moment? To? Yeah, to get me to where I want to be?

Kylie Stephenson 45:46
Yep. And sometimes, you're not going to do it the best way every single time. And that's okay. That's actually part of the fun of it is going you know what? That, that point in that, that moment of time in which I felt super anxious, or say your voice tenses up, and it makes a weird noise, you can then sort of go, oh, well, that's, that's interesting. So what are ways that I can just in that moment, if I feel like I'm getting a bit tense, what what's something I can do to to alleviate in real time because retrospect is a such a wonderful thing, but learning how to do things in real time is man, that is like, that's the goal. That's where the money is that when you understand yourself so much that you you go, this is probably gonna happen. This is gonna happen. This is okay. But then you're like, bam, bam, yeah, I'm managing. Oh, yeah, man. I'm project manager from like, with all the stars in the credits, because I know how to, you know, ebb and flow with whatever gets thrown at you. You give me a curveball. All right. I'll use my left hand. I'm left handed. So I'm good at catching with my left hand. But boom, ah, use my right hand that time. Amazing. Yeah, it was a bit wobbly. And I sort of flipped my hand around. But I caught that thing. Yeah, that was the goal. Caught it.

Mel Lathouras 47:10
I love that. So March. Actually, I forget who the celebrity was. It was a star sing. I saw a real that when she has like a little squeak in her voice or something like she goes up, there's a squeak? Oh, there it is, you know, I gave my audience a squeak, you know, because, you know, in the past, I know that I would have done a squeak or made some kind of weird noise and then thought about it for the entire bloody gig and then drove home going, oh, you know, in the past, obviously, you

Kylie Stephenson 47:41
can let it go. Immediately and go. Then yeah, can let it go not dwell on it, or let it ruin the rest of your performance. Because I know, even with acting like saying film acting, for example, if you are scrambling, you know, you got a camera in your face like this. If you're even scrambling or you're back in your own self, critiquing what you're doing at the time, you see it in the ice, you can see the drop out from the moment that you are living to, I'm critiquing that I did something wrong. There's such a subtle change, but you can actually see it on camera. So the more that you can just stay in the moment and not be editing what you're doing at the time, the better the performance is. And the more forgiving you are in yourself, too. Because by the time that gets round, it's like old news to you. Yeah. Yes.

Mel Lathouras 48:38
And again, just going back to that, though, we're humans. And you know, and this whole and creativity is beautiful chaos. It is you know, it's beautiful. Like, our journeys are imperfect. And that's why they're good. You know, that's why, yeah, that's why we keep doing what we do. Well, can we finish on something? I don't know, this is kind of like one of those moments of like, you're in the classroom and I'm gonna ask you like a random curveball question. So sorry, I'm ready. Um, what is one of your it doesn't have to be a song but it could be like, I guess a piece of art or meaningful piece of art or a song or music something that's really meaningful to you and why

Kylie Stephenson 49:23
okay. I, really, for some short time in my life, and I still do love now, but there's a band called daughter that they're from the UK. Look them up. They're amazing. Her voice is ethereal. But I remember I was going through quite a extensional time and I I'm like, What is world? What is life? What is me? And I remember this album came out and I think I can't remember the name of the album but it might be called not too disappear. Anyway, look it up. I remember having my headphones on lying on the couch in the dark. You know, being the broody mess I was and I listened from start to finish this album. And I remember actually having a body gasm you know, when you get flow state Yeah, and you kind of lose yourself and it goes out like that it was like this body gasm high. And I think to me, that always takes me back to how much music moves people and can move and, and change the way you think about things or it has a moment in time in which it can take you back 15 years, when you were at, you know, you had your first heartbreak, you're sitting in the car crying, and you're crying to Linkin Park. And, and you're just like, Oh, I've become so numb. Any time that song comes on, you are transported immediately. Back to that. Yeah, that one point in time. Now, if that's not powerful, and that album did that to me, and I will still if I ever hear a song I'm back exactly to that spot. I can see the image of that place, almost in an out of body way, where I see myself lying on their couch in that spot from from this perspective. And I just remember, you know, feeling that intense sensory. Body gasm I'm like, who would have sex when you can have that? Amazing. I feel

Mel Lathouras 51:41
like that is the perfect time to end. Sex. We have music

Kylie Stephenson 51:47
30 time slots. jpg only it's,

Mel Lathouras 51:50
you know, YouTube. I just have to click not made for kids. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's all good. Yeah, I've

Kylie Stephenson 51:58
never made for kids to trust me. You can always assume that something awkward is going to come out of my mouth. So

Mel Lathouras 52:03
oh, I let a few F bombs fly in this interview. So I know my mom picks me up on it all the time. She goes, yeah, it was good. But you shouldn't have said the F word.

Kylie Stephenson 52:13
Do I need to take you out back and wash your mouth out was Yeah,

Mel Lathouras 52:16
I feel like there is an element of that. But yeah, I try really hard not to diss comes out. So which you know, it's for genuine. Um, when I'm emphasising like it's it's genuinely emphatic when I when I do say it, so it's not like for the purpose of you know, yeah, it feels good. Sometimes. Sometimes it does.

Kylie Stephenson 52:37
When you like really cute like you and you're suddenly dropping an F bomb. It's just like, Did you see that? That's what she says it?

Mel Lathouras 52:47
Yes. She's got a little truck amount. This one? Yeah. Why? So thank you so much for being on the show you met. You've just honestly, what a beautiful gift to give everybody. Like, you can honestly you can have big feelings all the time. Yes. About singing but still we're doing it. Yes. And you know, and then and knowing that, you know, you can go for whatever it is that you want. If you want to be working with a band if you want to go and make an album if you want to be the next. What did you say? Kylie Kylie Minogue Jr. No, thank you, you know, you can do whatever it is that you want to do. It's totally possible at any age. Yep. And your journey does not have to look like anybody else's. It's your journey. So and I think Kylie story is a testament to that. You know, you might go back to university to meet to do music, but it doesn't matter because she's performing. She's doing it anyway. Most stuff that you can you can learn like not to dismiss university because I loved going to university. Yes, yes. You can learn a lot of stuff off YouTube. Just putting that out there. Yeah. If you want to learn how to read music, you can do it in a couple of hours on YouTube. Do it

Kylie Stephenson 54:03
your way. That's my only advice. Do it your way and just do it. Yeah. I mean,

Mel Lathouras 54:13
that was perfect. Just just all right. On that note, just do it.

Kylie Stephenson 54:26
Is out

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